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This week: Internships or slave labor? Co-host Sara France joins the fray and an interview with nature photographer, Moose Peterson.

Hosts: Frederick Van Johnson, Ron Brinkmann, Aaron Mahler, Sara France

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Producer: Aaron Mahler - Twitter: halfpress

Show notes by Tom Newman at fogviewphotos.com and on Twitter: fogview

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Intro Music by Scott Cannizzaro

NEWS & DISCUSSION

One thing I want to discuss today is something we get a lot of mail about and that's the idea of internships. I thought we would use this as a group discussion to see where you all stand. This came about from an article that was circling around before the show. Ron could you talk about the article?

Ron: This was a posting for an unpaid internship for a well known photographer. It looks like a post production type of job. The issue here is that they were looking for an unpaid internship. I know a lot of people get offended by this. This is an award-winning photographer and I would probably paid him to work for him. What do you think about unpaid internships?

Frederick: My take is probably the same as yours. Anybody who knows anything about photography would love to be able to sit down and have coffee and pick his brain. Unpaid internships can be good but you need to realize that people need to eat. You can get this great experience but you still have to sustain yourself. If you get a chance as a video guy to intern on the Oprah Show, are you going to turn it down? No. But what is the ethics line on the show itself since they are making a lot of money. The photographer we are talking about here could pay if he wanted too. Is it right not to pay, or is it the right of passage?

Sara: I have an opinion on this since I have unpaid interns. I paid to go to training and the interns are getting on-the-job training and not having to pay for it.

Ron: I'm okay with it as long as everything is clear up front and there is no "I'll pay you later" type of thing going on.

Frederick: I'm still on the fence and see the benefit in getting the experiences without having to pay for it but I'm still not sure about big companies (or famous photographers) hiring unpaid interns and making money off the interns and not giving any back. I guess it's a decision that the intern needs to make and determine if the experience is worth it.

Sara: I think the best understanding of this is to ask an intern who worked for me. My last intern goes around talking about how his internship with me has changed his life and got him going quicker in his business than he could on his own. I hire from my interns so it's like long extended interviews.

Aaron (who finally joined online): I'm in favor of unpaid internships as long as it's something the intern can handle. I will also add that I got married as the result of an internship. My wife was my intern. I think it's similar to paying for education.

Sara: I take my interns on shoots with me. I think there is a learning curve on how to use interns successfully in a business. One of the things I learned quickly is you can't teach them everything in 3 months, because you end up doing a 3 months seminar and you don't get any work back. I stopped having interns for a while because I felt it wasn't worth the effort I was putting into it.

Ron: There is a cost to get an inexperience person into the workflow. A lot of times it's not like these folks are getting the work done for free. It's an investment.

Sara: There is a high cost when I'm doing the training. I may be training someone who is going to be my competition. If they came in for 3 months and leave, that doesn't have much value to my business.

Frederick: Is that one of the risks of bringing someone on in the Wedding space?

Sara: Yes, that can happen, but to be honest there is enough business for everyone out there. It's not all about the business but the photographer. You can never train them to be me, so there is never any real competition.

Aaron: (My experience) outside of photography (as a system admin), the trick is being fair to the interns and having a working environment and schedule to help them excel. I'm often caught in a situation where I only have time to get what I have to get done and don't have time to turn that into a teaching situation. So in recent years (outside of photography) I haven't taken on interns because I can't fit them into the schedule and be fair to them in the process.

Frederick: Ron, if you're hiring an intern, how long do you think they should be in that position?

Ron: I don't think you can generalize it. I think there is a real danger in trying to put a time on it. I don't think it's a time but a skill set kind of thing.

Frederick: Sara, how do you go about finding your interns?

Sara: Usually, they find me. I did Twitter once and found an intern that way. We do have a slot open.

Frederick: How is the wedding photography industry overall as a whole?

Sara: We've seen things really start to pick up lately. All my weddings were crammed into the last part of the year.

Now for some photography news.

TIME collects the best photos of '09
Time does this every year. The best photos of 2009.

Nikon updates 300mm f/2.8, 2x teleconverter
Nikon updates their 300 mm teleconverter. It ships next month with stabilization expanded to four stops and a new focus mode. 2x is world's first to utilize an aspherical element to improve optical performance.

INTERVIEW -- Moose Peterson
A wildlife photographer. Besides working on the lines as a shooter, he's also a long time Nikon shooter. He became the first wildlife photographer to shoot strictly digital in the early years.

Moose: Thanks for having me here and sharing this thing called wildlife photographer.

Frederick: I had my first experience shooting wildlife in Yellowstone. So how did you get into wildlife photography?

Moose: There is not great glamorous story. A combination of my family having a summer cabin and how life unfolded. When I first started out I worked for a photographer who told me that I would never succeed as a wildlife photographer and I should stick to my carpentry. It goes to show you what you can do in this business if you just stick with it.

Frederick: That's true of most things.

Moose: I've never been out for fame or fortune. Just to pay the bills.

Frederick: Lets talk a little about gear and that you are sponsored by Lexar. I'm also a Nikon shooter so what is it about Nikon cameras that you like so much?

Moose: A couple of things. It has a romance to it. Nikon from day one has had an incredible flash system and flash is important in wildlife photography. Flash is why I've stuck with Nikon.

Frederick: Are you using the creative lighting system for your work?

Moose: Everything I do in wildlife is TTL and for product and people shooting too.

Frederick: How have you seen that change in the last 10 years.

Moose: In the last 15 years we are still using the same flash tube in the flash units. The heart of the flash itself hasn't really changed. The button and dials have changed.

Frederick: Does it need to change?

Moose: Yes, we need more power. I'm surprised people being excited about flash when video is coming along. Video and flash don't get along. If you use an external mic, you just lost your hot shoe. It (flash) might have a limited life if it goes the way of video.

Frederick: What do you think about the new Nikon D3S? I shoot with a D3. We now have a D3, D3x and a D3s.

Moose: The original D3 changed everything. The D3x offers incredible quality if you are doing large prints. I rather see people put their time behind the camera shooting instead of buying an $8,000 body. The D3s, has a brand new sensor with high ISO ability: 6,400. D3s also has video ability. It only shoots video clips with a max of 5 minutes of 720p. It's not really a video camera. Its not going to replace the "moose cam" which is a 1080p video cam.

Frederick: We are looking at these D3s with ISO starting at 6,400 and goes on up to these crazy ISOs. Does this remove the necessity of having a strobe?

Moose: No, it doesn't replace the craftsmanship that is light and the photographer. Just because you can crank the ISO up, doesn't mean that you should and doesn't mean it can replace the flash. Personally I'm going to shoot at ISO 200. I will always shoot in the basement. Why spend the money for the D3s when you can craft the image with flash or reflectors. The quality that comes out of the camera is based on the skill-set that the photographer brings to the situation.

Frederick: For the guy out there who has a D3, the path is to move to the D3s instead of the D3x?

Moose: If you have a D3 now and thinking about the D3s, ask yourself two questions: Does your photography depend on high ISO performance or does it depend on video? If you don't need those two things, don't upgrade to the D3s. If your are creating images that are 24x30 or larger and you need the incredible quality of the D3x and you have the skill-set to process that file and not harm that quality, than the D3x is not for you either. Stick with the D3. Right now the D3 is out there used, and you could buy that and a lens and have money left over compared to buying a new D3s and that might get your photography a lot further down the road.

Frederick: Speaking of lenses, one of the lenses that owners of full-frame bodies are waiting for is the 70-200 VR2. What do you think of it?

Moose: Yes, I have one. It's a beautiful lens. Should you upgrade? The main thing with this lens is you can shoot FX and not have vignetting. You want to set the camera normal and shoot it and you won't see vignetting. The lens is a tad sharper. A tad more contrast and a tad smaller. Those little "tads", are they really important? It's hard to answer that. If you are a FX shooter, you should upgrade because those little differences will deliver you a better file for 8x10 or the printed page. The other thing I want to throw out there if you have the older 7-200 (lens) and you spend time dealing with the darkening corners (vignetting) on the FX camera bodies, just the investment you make in time not dealing with that anymore -- to me you're buying time. You will save yourself post-processing time by upgrading.

Frederick: What about the advantages of moving to a full frame sensor. What's the cost savings in staying with DX lenses instead of going with FX lenses?

Moose: That's a common question and I don't know if I have the perfect answer. I can only say myself that I've been in the business for 30 years. I started out with 35 mm. With Fx, it's just like going home. With DX you have the crop-factor and you don't have to own a longer lens. We all have have different tools and different passions (so there is no right answer.)

Frederick: Taking it back to gear. Talking about "stuff." What I preach on the show is if you can't buy it, rent it. What do you think about renting gear like these long lenses that you are only going to use once in a while?

Moose: Renting is a great option, especially if you are just thinking about upgrading or purchasing a new lens. Using it for one or two weeks to see if it really fits your style of photography. Most people rent a piece of gear and for most of the rental time they can't shoot with it and it just sits there. So plan out that rental so you have as much time behind the camera with that gear as you can. When I get something new, I force myself to use it or shoot with it exclusively for the first week or two, to see if it really does what I think it should. The fact that I'm in business means every piece of gear has to pull its own weight.

Frederick: Lets talk about what your are doing with the Kelby Training crew.

Moose; Scott has made it possible to put out videos that people can watch over and over again and learn both from listening and watching techniques that might apply to photography. Scott and the crew make it so easy to do that. You need to watch things over and over again to pick up the little techniques.

Frederick: The on-line training stuff has changed everything.

Moose: Photographers today don't tend to look at photography they enjoy and back-engineer how that shot was taken. That's an important part of the learning process.

Frederick: I have a list of questions to ask you but I'm going to Twitter to get the questions. The first question is "how did you get the name Moose?"

Moose: That's a question that still plagues the family. My mom still haven't call me that. It was something my dad came up from the beginning.

Frederick: Here's another question: Name one thing in your life that you would change or do differently.

Moose: There isn't just one thing. I go back and look at my photographs I've taken 15 or 20 years ago and wish I knew more about photography back then. Opportunities that would never reappear. Working with threatened and endangered critters and having better skill sets back then.

Frederick: Ask Moose if he had to pick between a 300 mm f2.8 and a 200-400 mm, which way would he go?

Moose: I don't have to pick between one or the other. The difference is the depth of field. You have a f2.8 vs. a f4. How much skill do you have to make the subject pop and tell a story at 2.8 vs. f4? I have a 200 mm f2. This goes back to question about renting if I had a job where I had to have a 300 f2.8.

Frederick: Ted wants to know how did you get the buffalo in the studio and who cleaned up afterwards?

Moose: If you look very carefully in the video I placed a large trash can and a snow shovel. I work with the folks at NAAP and they are very good at Photoshop. CS4 Extended does video so the buffalo wasn't even in the studio -- it was a video clip.

Frederick: Jan wants to know: What's up with D Town and is it returning?

Moose: I'm not part of D Town and only sent in clips. I believe it is coming back shortly.

Frederick: Another question: why do you refuse to crop your images?

Moose: To be honest, it's not a common question. When I got started I submitted my images to the photo buyer in cardboard frames and I couldn't put tape around the image and say only use this portion. It would make them think I didn't know what I was doing. I've been around 30 years and I'm still here doing it. Maybe those high standards has allowed me to stay around and grow into the process.

Frederick: A great last question: If he had to start from scratch today, would he and would he be as successful?

Moose: Those are great questions. Would I, hell yah. It comes down to the individual. Anybody who thinks this is a forty hour a week job or a few days out of the month, don't understand that this is a all-consuming thing. Photography is always on my mind. ... If I was 18 and starting all over again, there is no way I would do anything but what I'm doing, even knowing what I know.

Frederick: That was a great last question. So where can people find you?

Moose: The most common place is moosepeterson.com/blog and twitter as mooseperterson.

LISTENER QUESTIONS

Canon software versus lightroom2

Q: Listener Robert Martinez writes: Quick question, when loading my pictures from my canon G11 ... is it preferable to use canons' software to upload the pics to my pc or is it ok or will I be missing something if I just use lightroom2 instead? IN the manual Canon states that one should use their software only for best results.

A: Aaron answers: There is a lot of debate about this but I don't use the Canon software. My photos go straight into Lightroom 2 and Lightroom Beta and I'm sure that's true of a lot of people. Where it may make a difference is in RAW processing. I think you are completely safe going directly into Lightroom. Ron adds that it does make a different but it may not matter. The one thing that you will get out of the Canon software is a close match to the JPEG you see on the back of your camera.

This episode is also brought to you by Audible.com. Over 50,000 titles. For your free Audible book, go to audiblepodcast.com/twip.

Starting a commercial photog business and gear

Q: Listener Michael Vannest writes: Well one day I hope to start a Commercial Advertising Photography Business But would like to know from the Pros if it would be better to start of slow with Equipment and just buy as the demand calls for it or should I buy all of the latest gear so I will be ready.

A: Sara answers: I get that question quite a bit. It's hard to get money (loans) right now so getting things for businesses can be changeling right now. You could start out slow and build things up. You can get started with some good lenses. I'm a Canon shooter and shoot prime (lenses). I started out shooting zooms and switched to primes. There are some great primes you can get: 50 mm F1.4 is $375, the 85 mm F1.8 around the same price. The 20 mm F1.8 is another good lens under $500. The 50 mm macro. Even a wide zoom 17-40 mm F4. Start building a great portfolio and add more as you get more bookings. You can then move up to my 50 mm F1.4 that I'm in love with. Actually, my favorite lens is my 35 mm F1.4. Aaron mentioned renting lenses too (lensrental.com).
Question: Does lensrental.com and borrowedlenses.com require a deposit or put a hold on your credit card when you rent equipment from them? Update: Lensrental.com responded on Twitter saying no deposit was required with their rentals.

Darkroom techniques vs. Photoshop

Q: Listener Todd Bologna writes: Since I have only been shooting digital I am not familiar with darkroom processes. I belong to a photoclub and we can manipulate photos for the assigned category using only darkroom techniques / processes. No one can tell me what the darkroom techniques / processes are and what the equivalent is in photoshop. I know this sounds a little rudimentary but i usually submit photos straight out of the camera and they can use some improvement. :) Thoughts/comments/suggestions?

A: Ron answers: There is not a one-to-one mapping of what you do in the darkroom and what you do in Photoshop. It's a different process. At some level it doesn't really matter. You should be judging your photos on what you like -- visually. Dodge and burn in Aperture and Lightroom is similar to what you do in the darkroom. It may be they are limiting the changes to darkroom techniques to limit the cloning and other Photoshop tricks.

PICKS OF THE WEEK

- Ron - Polar Coordinate panoramas - Tutorial here.
- Sara - ShootQ -- this is a backend for our business.
- Frederick - DropBox
- Aaron - Lexar Dual-Slot UDMA USB Reader - RW035-001

WRAP UP
Ron can be found at http://digitalcomposting.wordpress.cm and via Twitter: RonBrinkmann

Frederick can be found at http://www.frederickvan.com and via Twitter: Frederickvan

Aaron can be found at http://halfpress.com and via Twitter: halfpress

Sarah can be found at http://www.sarafrancephotography.com/ and on Twitter SaraFrance

To share your suggestions and questions go to www.twiplog.com

Show notes provide by Tom Newman of Fogview Photos and via Twitter: Fogview